Flour. Salt. Pepper. This small trifecta of ingredients gives Southern Indiana a fried chicken reputation that is unrivaled. We speak with internationally acclaimed food author Michael Ruhlman about what makes our fried chicken out of this world and follow a condensed version of his Fried Chicken Trail here in Decatur County. We stop at Stone’s Family Restaurant to speak with Joe Johannigman, A&W in Greensburg with Larry Fry, and Fireside Inn with Janet Litmer to taste test and see what makes each fried chicken rendition so scrumptious. Philip Diewert is back with a quick word on community and event grants available through Greensburg Tourism. Lori Durbin gives us an update on the upcoming Tree County Player shows Winnie the Pooh and Arsenic and Old Lace while Vanessa Martin tells us what to expect next at the Decatur County Public Library.


Andrew:
Welcome to Beyond the Tree Tower, stories from Decatur County, Indiana. I'm your host Andrew. We're listening to the Greensburg Community High School Concert Band performing Incantations. Assistant band director Jeremiah Bose was on the rostrum for this performance. On this episode of Beyond the Tree Tower, we're taking a trip down the Decatur County fried chicken trail.

Joe Johannigman:
I did know that the fried chicken in Southern Indiana, that's what we're known for.

Andrew:
We will also check in with Phillip Deiwert at Tourism to hear about the Tourism Commission's excellent grant program.

Phillip Diewert:
We have two different grants that people can apply for. One, is the Community Enhancement Grant and the other is for a special event.

Andrew:
And then we check in with the Greensburg Decatur County Public Library.

Vanessa Martin:
Also come visit us at the Westport Branch library. It's in the Westport Community Building.

Andrew:
All this and more is Beyond the Tree Tower. Sometime in early 2019, hundreds of miles away from here, somebody was hearing for the first time what we here in Southern Indiana have long suspected.

Michael Ruhlman:
My wife claimed that Indiana made the best fried chicken in the world and I knew for a fact that I've made the best fried chicken in the world.

Andrew:
This person just happened to be an international bestselling food writer.

Michael Ruhlman:
My name is Michael Ruhlman. I'm a writer. I write mainly about food. My wife, Ann Hood, who's also a writer, in order to prove her point, she gave me a gift, a trip to Greensburg on Valentine's day, in the middle of February. Probably grew up in Greensburg and she arranged for a big family dinner at Braus Haus and we had a traditional southern Indiana chicken dinner and I had to admit, that chicken was pretty damn good. I couldn't say I had better and I was fascinated by it. We went back home and I thought, "I'd like to write about that."

Michael Ruhlman:
And so I wrote to Sam Sifton at the New York Times and said, "Sam, if you know about the fried chicken of Southern Indiana, you know why I want to write about it. If you don't know about the fried chicken of Southern Indiana, then you know why I want to write about it for you." And he did a little Googling and said, "I'll bite. I'll take it." And they sent me to Greensburg and we went to... I think we ate at like nine fried chicken places over the course of 36 hours.

Andrew:
Nine fried chicken places seemed ambitious, so limiting it to Decatur County. We decided to visit just 3. First, we're going to head south on 421 then hang a right on Millhousen Road. That's right. We're going to Stone's. When you arrive at Stone's, you're greeted by long benches on the front porch, populated with friends and families chatting before or after dinner.

Customer 1:
This guy will fill your ears. You will ask him to lick...

Andrew:
And upon entering, the friendly atmosphere and smell of fried chicken surrounds you.

Waitress:
Hello. How are you guys?

Customer 2:
Doing pretty good. You?

Joe Johannigman:
That's Donna and I's main goal is to make sure everybody's good and they feel welcomed and...

Andrew:
I sat down with owner, Joe Johannigman.

Joe Johannigman:
I was born and raised three miles to the east and Donna was about two miles to the west. It's been a bar ever since the late 1800's. They started pan frying chicken back in about the 50's and then of course it developed from there. Yeah, Millhousen, we're essentially located in between Indianapolis and Cincinnati. So our customer base is drawn a lot from Columbus. We get a lot from the Lawrenceburg area and then we get a lot of them from Cincinnati and Indianapolis also. But Millhousen was founded in the mid 1800's. It was set out to be similar to Greensburg. The railroad was supposed to come through.

Andrew:
Joe loves talking about the history of the area. He also has a passion for the food Stone's serves.

Joe Johannigman:
So opened it back up in the 1930's and from there she started a bar. That's my timer.

Andrew:
Yeah.

Joe Johannigman:
Hang on. I'll go back and check my pies. We'll do about 75 chickens on a Friday night and we'll do about 100 to 125 on a Saturday night. It's the same recipe. Of course, we don't pan fry anymore. Doing 125 chickens, I couldn't imagine pan fry all of that. We do deep fry it, which is different. When they originally started, Bill Stone, when he first started, did pan fry but when Tony Collins and Darryl took over, they started deep frying and we've got the same recipe that Dave frys.

Waitress:
Hello. Hi guys. Want the same table?

Customer 3:
Yeah, that's fine. Over here?

Waitress:
Yep.

Customer 3:
Awesome. Thank you.

Andrew:
As the customers started to flow in, I stepped into the kitchen to see where the chicken magic happens.

Joe Johannigman:
Tony?

Andrew:
Early in the night, we'll start with chicken and then we get a lot of people getting that and then later on we'll switch over and a lot of people order wings and so we'll make a lot of wings later in the night. I'm making six chickens because we're getting a lot of people starting to come in.

Joe Johannigman:
Yeah.

Tony:
We average, I think it was three pieces a person I think, so as people walk in you just kind of count heads and guess at what you're going to need. So we basically, we take all of the fatty pieces out, like the thighs and the legs. We put them into the water or the solution I guess, technically, and you put it in the breading and bread it up and then you set it over there and once you get all your fatty pieces down, you drop them and then when they're in, then you turn around and you do all your bony pieces.

Customer 2:
I like the senses too.

Customer 1:
Yeah, it's good. Very good.

Customer 2:
Chicken was very good.

Customer 1:
Definitely and crispy.

Andrew:
Are you from the area?

Customer 1:
Sort of.

Customer 2:
Scipio.

Andrew:
And you did the buffet?

Customer 2:
Yes.

Andrew:
Another feature that sets Stone's apart is the buffet.

Joe Johannigman:
Three of the nights we're open, three of the four, we have fried chicken on the buffet. On Thursday nights we have a taco bar which is all that you can eat tacos, but we still normally have the smoked wings and livers and gizzards. So we have like a gibbler also.

Customer 2:
So I've sampled the chicken and it was delicious and I had never had chicken casserole before and that is very good.

Andrew:
Two pieces of chicken...

Customer 2:
And chicken lasagna and I did get the ribs and they're boneless and they have excellent flavor, with just a hint of smoke in them.

Joe Johannigman:
They don't all come for the fried chicken because we also have homemade pies and a lot of people, they come and they know that they go fast so they reserve it when they first come. Some of them will call ahead even and say, "Hey, put me back three pieces of chocolate."

Customer 3:
And their pies are awesome. Peanut butter pie is, my favorite. Tastes like a big Reese cup. Nice lasagna ribs. We like Friday nights. It has the fried chicken.

Andrew:
Joe's well aware of the reputation of Southern Indiana fried chicken.

Joe Johannigman:
I did know that a fried chicken in Southern Indiana, that's what we're known for, that we are in the chicken capital or the world is what I call it. If you don't, and what's nice with it is if for some reason you don't like the flavor of ours, there's one right next door almost that fries it a little differently, that will be more to your liking. And that's what's very nice about Southern Indiana.

Andrew:
And so we had back into Greensburg to sample another one of those fried chicken options. As blessed as we are to have so much good fried chicken around. Most people I know say their favorite fried chicken comes from right on Lincoln Street in Greensburg.

Larry Fry:
Larry Fry, owner of the A & W, along with my wife Janie Fry.

Andrew:
Larry's been in the food service industry in Southern Indiana for decades and in the late 70's, he had a couple of opportunities.

Larry Fry:
While I was in food sales as a distributor sales rep and this was my area and I called on the A & W, way back when and the gentleman that owned it was wanting to get out and I thought it would be a good opportunity to give it a try. So we bought it in 1978. When we bought it, we were not selling chicken or he wasn't selling chicken at the time. It just so happened that a gentleman that had a seed corn business wanted us to fry some chicken for him for an outing. So we fried some up using the recipe that we continue to use today and the response was really good and it just kind of kept growing from there.

Andrew:
People from outside Greensburg are often surprised to find such a unique item on an A & W menu.

Larry Fry:
When we bought the place through that period of time, there had been about five or six different owners and each owner I was allowed to grandfather in what we were doing at the time. So we've been fortunate enough that they let us continue through the whole period of time.

Andrew:
But at this point the Fry's A & W fried chicken is a regional institution. If you live in the Greensburg area, there's a good chance it's part of some of your family traditions.

Larry Fry:
Mother's Day is usually our busiest day on chicken surprisingly. And we'll go through about 300 on a Sunday, on Mother's Day.

Andrew:
Larry invited me into the kitchen to watch him fry up a batch of chicken.

Larry Fry:
There it is. We're in the process of seasoning right now. We get our chicken in fresh every day. We just got a delivery in, so we-

Andrew:
Who do you get it from?

Larry Fry:
We get it from O'mara, here locally. Have bought it well, ever since we've been here and they've taken real good care of us. They keep their chicken real fresh. It's an ice pack. So that even keeps it fresher, really helps that way. We sell a 10 piece cut and then we will bag it so when we get busy they don't have to start looking around for what portions they need.

Andrew:
I asked Michael Ruhlman what the key components to Southeastern Indiana fried chicken were.

Michael Ruhlman:
The main and distinguishing factor is a high amount of pepper and only flour, salt, pepper. And that's really all there is to it.

Andrew:
So, what is that Larry's dipping the chicken in?

Andrew:
Is that just flour?

Larry Fry:
Maybe.

Andrew:
We got a similar response from Joe at Stone's.

Joe Johannigman:
I can't give my secrets away.

Andrew:
Of course not, 'course not.

Andrew:
But it's not just the ingredients. There's something organically regional without Southeastern Indiana fried chicken. It is often found in small towns with a large Catholic church. Many times it started as a bar, then added pan fried chicken to the menu, sometime in the 50's. So let's head up the road to one such small town in the northeast corner of the County, Enochsburg and the Fireside Inn.

Janet Litmer:
Do you mind if you follow me around as I work?

Andrew:
Janet Litmer manages the Fireside Inn. She let me follow her around before opening.

Janet Litmer:
Just washing potatoes and getting the baked potatoes ready for the names so, getting them poked and ready to put into the oven. So the gentleman back doing the frying is Anthony, and then that's Jack who does the dipping for the chicken. I have worked here. It was 41 years, the 1st of August.

Andrew:
Oh wow.

Janet Litmer:
Yeah. So I started when I was 19, back in the kitchen and then as time went on I went on to waitressing and worked my way. I've been managing it for the last 10 years now. So, Saturday is ultimately our busiest night. But Fridays can, they can vary, they can be really busy or they can just be mediocre. Excuse me, I've got the phone ringing now. Excuse me.

Janet Litmer:
Hello. Fireside. Sure. What can I get for you? Four chickens? Anything else? Just four chickens and what time would you like that at? We could have it ready for you at 5:20. Would that work out for you? We've got four chicken to go at 5:20.

Andrew:
Chicken counter?

Janet Litmer:
Chicken counter. We count our chickens so we can know where we're at real quickly. On Fridays it's not too critical because we've brought in all the chicken that we need for the whole weekend. Hopefully. Not always. So typically at 5:00, it starts dropping chicken depending on what orders we have.

Anthony:
Oh, let's see here. I've been cooking, I was probably a junior in high school. 25 now. So that put me at what? About nine years. Time management. When you get a bunch of orders in and you've got, everybody's running crazy and trying to keep up with everything and it gets... Saturday nights, it gets a little wild but other than that it's pretty good.

Anthony:
You just kind of get them all in there. Pull all that. Here, see we've got another, we'll make sure we get batter everywhere. So that'll work for two chicken, so that's probably good there. And then just start. It doesn't have to be half or any amount of pieces. Just so you've got room in your bowl to move everything around. It's all at 350. Just like everything, 350. That's four chicken, which is normally what we do. Unless we get really busy, you can fit five in there and stuff, the max that we do. You can run through a lot chicken pretty quick but it gets really busy trying to keep up with chicken and then side orders and the grill and that kind of stuff.

Janet Litmer:
Because most people absolutely love our coleslaw and we bring in the cabbage and the heads and chop and grind our own cabbage, which I don't think most restaurants typically do. They probably bring them in as a premixed. They probably just order their coleslaw but we make ours all here. In Southeastern Indiana is definitely known for its fried chicken though.

Waiter:
Hello.

Customer 1:
Hi.

Waiter:
How are you guys tonight?

Customer 1:
Pretty good.

Waiter:
Two of you?

Customer 1:
Yep.

Waiter:
Right this way.

Customer 1:
I want the three piece cod.

Janet Litmer:
Three piece cod dinner?

Customer 1:
Please.

Janet Litmer:
And what sides would you like with that?

Customer 1:
Can I have onion rings?

Janet Litmer:
Sure.

Customer 1:
And house salad.

Janet Litmer:
A house salad? You want the one with the romaine lettuce and the spinach leaves and slivers?

Janet Litmer:
Sometime in the early 1960s, like 1961 or 1962. Actually Fireside Inn opened on December 22nd, 1950 but at that time it actually just opened as a Tavern for World War II veterans. So they had a place to get together and chat and play cards and stuff. So that was the initial reason that it opened but after a little over 10 years they decided to serve chicken and they were just initially open on Friday and Saturday evenings. And when they started, like I said, it was 1961 or 1962 I've never been able to pin down the date completely but on their very first night they served eight chickens. So and now a lot of times on a Saturday night we'll serve 120 chickens, so it definitely has grown.

Customer 2:
Can you get two chicken breast?

Janet Litmer:
We do have one extra piece in that is a extra breast so I can get you two chicken breast if you'd like.

Customer 2:
We just were looking for someplace different to eat that we hadn't been for awhile.

Andrew:
Yeah. Where are you from?

Customer 2:
Columbus.

Andrew:
Oh.

Customer 2:
Indiana.

Andrew:
And so concludes this trip along the Decatur County fried chicken trail. The Fireside Inn is located at 2174 South County Line Road in Enochsburg. Fry's A & W is at 1501 North Lincoln Street in Greensburg and Stone's Family Restaurant is located in Millhousen at 2376 East County Road 820. That's three samples of world-class cuisine right here in Decatur County. As Michael Ruhlman puts it.

Michael Ruhlman:
Simple fried chicken is every bit as important as the milk fed poularde at Per Se. Oh, it's that is important that I go back and forth between the two worlds because they're equally important.

Andrew:
Thank you so much to everyone who spoke with me at all three fried chicken restaurants and for being so accommodating in the kitchens, especially. A special note on A & W fried chicken.

Larry Fry:
We close at the end of November and then we open up at the 1st of February.

Andrew:
So now's a good time to drive out to Stone's or to the Fireside Inn if you're in Greensburg. If you've not yet had enough chicken coverage, I strongly recommend Michael Ruhlman's great article from the New York Times. There is a link to the story in the episode notes as well as a link to Michael Ruhlman's website. He recently started a podcast called From Scratch. It is quite good. If you listen to podcasts and something tells me that you do, I recommend subscribing. And finally we've included a link to novelist Ann Hood's website. Her bold but easily defendable statement started this whole thing. Next on Beyond the Tree Tower we talk to tourism director Phillip Diewert about how tourism's grant program helps improve Decatur County.

Phillip Diewert:
That's what a lot of people know tourism in Decatur County for right now is our grant program because that is something that people have seen. We have two different grants that people can apply for. One, is the community enhancement grant and the other is for like a special event and we budgeted $90,000 in 2019 to go towards our grants program. We also, this year, 2019 we did a new grant project where we awarded $12,000 each to Main Street Greensburg, the fair board and the parks and recreation and just kind of let those agencies do whatever they saw fit with those funds. And then we also got it approved through the county council to do $100,000 to go towards stellar projects. So we actually have put $226,000 towards community enhancements in Decatur County this year. Special event, that's pretty self explanatory. Either you're a festival or a 5k or a bike ride or whatever it is.

Phillip Diewert:
We can grant, allow for up to $2,500 for a special event. For community enhancement project, and that's pretty broad. So, if somebody has a good idea, if an existing business has something that they could do. So if you are interested in our grants, go to our website www.visitGreensburg.com. Click the link in the top right corner and then there are actually three links within the grant program. One is just kind of a general description of what we're looking for. What we can fund, what we prefer to fund, what we need out of a grantee.

Andrew:
Thanks Phillip. And now a quick check of Tree County Player's schedule. Auditions for the children's production Winnie the Pooh will be held soon. I spoke with co-director, Lori Durbin.

Lori Durbin:
Yes, auditions are coming up, Monday and Wednesday of next week, which would be January 6th and 8th. And we are looking for 13 students. It is an all student production, so anyone really that's able to walk, talk and take some direction through the age of 18 would be eligible to come over and audition. There are 13 characters. Of course, there's the ones that everybody would recognize. Christopher Robin, Winnie the Pooh, Piglet, Owl, Eeyore. There's Kanga and Roo. There's Rabbit and then there's a narrator. Most people would be shocked to find out that Tigger did not make the cut for this particular production and the reason is because the story that's being told in this particular show is the story of when Kanga and Roo come to the 100 Acre Wood and Tigger didn't exist at that point in the writings.

Lori Durbin:
Auditions are at the Tree County Players Playhouse on Main Street and we'll be auditioning again, anybody that falls into the appropriate age group. Most of the time people to know what they have to bring to auditions. I prefer to audition the kids. I want to see what I can get out of the students without them really knowing what they're doing. Yeah, so the show is March 6th at 7:00, March 7th at 7:00 and March 8th at 2:00. So, one of the shows that will be in production while we're rehearsing Winnie the Pooh will be the performance of Arsenic and Old Lace and that performance, it's Friday, January 24th at 7:00 and Saturday, January 25th at 7:00 and Sunday, January 26th at 2:00. And it is being directed by Amanda Gault and being produced by Katy Prairie.

Andrew:
Thanks Lori. Be sure to check out both of those plays and finally let's check in with Vanessa Martin at the Greensburg Decatur County Public Library.

Vanessa Martin:
Start your year off right. Come to the Greensburg Decatur County Public Library. We have plenty of children's, teen and adult programming. You can find that on our website at greensburglibrary.org. We also have tons of books and movies and we have digital content also, so if you haven't updated your library card or you don't have one, make sure you stop by the library and get your library card today. Also, come visit us at the Westport Branch Library. It's in the Westport community building and we are open 2:00 to 8:00 PM. Monday through Thursday and 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM on Saturdays.

Andrew:
Thanks Vanessa. That just about wraps up this episode of Beyond the Tree Tower, stories from Decatur County, Indiana. If you like what you're hearing and you want to make sure there are more episodes of Beyond the Tree Tower, here's what you can do. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Write a review on Apple podcasts, and perhaps most importantly, you can tell a friend about the podcast, particularly friends outside of Decatur County. Help us show those outside of the area why Decatur County is so great. Beyond the Tree Tower, Stories from Decatur County, Indiana is a production of Decatur County tourism. Visit us online at visitgreensburg.com or in real life at 211 North Broadway Street in Greensburg. Now, here's more of the Greensburg Community High School Concert Band. We'll see you next time beyond the tree tower.